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<CIA-7>03arjanb * 10Nice/src/bossa/syntax/ (6 files): Converted AtomicConstraint subclasses.00:03
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Hi folks. Can anyone suggest some links that help illustrate how Nice code is more concise than Java code?15:04
The examples on the site aren't exactly what I'm looking for.15:05
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hi15:24
<arjanb>hi15:30
Defiler: afaik there's no page summing these thing up15:31
<Defiler>Hrm.15:35
I work in a pretty huge IS shop, and I'm producing a document that describes our various options for better ways of developing apps.15:36
I'm working on a section that illustrates how different languages can get a particular job done very differently, even if the languages are similar.15:37
What came to mind first was "write the same simple widget in Java, Jython, and Nice"
<arjanb>have you seen this introduction to Nice: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-alj10064.html15:39
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hi
<cm_>hi15:42
<Defiler>Actually, no. That's a good one.
I did read the DeveloperWorks article about Groovy, though.
<gamsl>cm_: did you write to nice-eclipse? my mailer is still down, but should work today evening. they had (have) hardware troubles ...15:43
defiler: if you look at the code examples for nice-swing, the ones on the "Code Examples" page are invalid! Look at the nice-swing documentation site to see valid ones. 15:47
actually, i'll fix the ones on code-examples ... one moment .....
<cm_>gamsl: No, not yet.15:49
<gamsl>that's fine. i would not be able to read them anyway at the moment :)15:51
<Defiler>gamsl: Thanks for the tip.15:54
<arjanb>gamsl: did you thought about syntax highlighting and parsing, i don't see it in your mail15:55
<gamsl>i thought of that too, but it belongs to the editor. although basic syntax highlighting is no difficult task and can be added soon16:00
what exactly do you mean with parsing?
<arjanb>parsing is transfroming text to ast16:01
<gamsl>mhm i thought so, and for this reason i think it will be closely related to the model we need for nice source16:02
<arjanb>i prefer not to have to maintain 2 parsers but an incremental parser is quite different16:03
<gamsl>defiler: i just saw the code on the nice-swing page still uses deprecated syntax, except for that it should compile right away (i think deprecated syntax gives you a warning). if you need any help with nice-swing, just ask!16:04
<arjanb>much code is outdated, the tutorial doesn't even compile i fear..16:06
<gamsl>do you mean nice-swing especially or nice code in general on the homepage?16:07
i know nice-swing lags behind heavily -.(
<arjanb>both although nice-swing had some maintnance the last 2 years16:08
<gamsl>if there would be an incremental parser, would there still ne need for one that's not?
i saw that, thanks ._)!16:09
<arjanb>it was the largest piece of source code so a good testcase16:10
<gamsl>i guess it could be made smaller though .)
is there actually something like nice-swing for swt available?16:27
<arjanb>a start was made by Isaac: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/packages/nice.swt/src/nice/swt/16:30
i think retyping part is (almost) complete and there should be jar of it somewhere..16:46
<gamsl>cool17:03
<arjanb>*sigh* at sourceforge: http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?group_id=1&docid=2352#section1
downloading at 270 byte/s now :(17:04
<gamsl>public interface CloseWindowListener = native CloseWindowListener;17:09
public class Browser extends Composite = native Browser;
what do such retypings do?
<arjanb>probably nothing17:12
or they could hide an implementation of some interface..17:14
<gamsl>the swt code is full of them17:17
<arjanb>it might be a way to make sure nothing is forgotten..17:18
<gamsl>also java packages are imported explicitly using .* which according to the manual means that these java classes can be used without their fully qualified name, i.e File instead of java.io.File. I don't understand what reason there could be to again do retypings like this ...17:23
what does 17:25
import org.eclipse.swt.browser.* (!);
mean? (especially the (!) part?)
i haven't found it in the manual17:26
<arjanb>default to nonnull arguments for all methods in that package17:27
<gamsl>ok17:28
what do you think of unit testing in general?
<arjanb>tricky question, well personally i don't like it..17:32
i have no problems with someone using it17:34
<gamsl>i also don't really like it, but a testsuite for the eclipse-plugin would be handy!17:52
in the book i read, they are all about test driven development
<arjanb>*away cooking..17:53
<gamsl>anyway not all aspects in eclipse - especially UI related ones - can (easily) be tested using unittests, but core functionality could be tested ...17:54
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<arjanb>*back19:03
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<Defiler>So, I'm working on a simple comparison between various Java-bytecode-compatible languages for the appendix of this whitepaper I'm working on...19:50
Anyone feel like taking a look at these snippets, and suggesting an idiomatic "Nice" example?
http://supremetyrant.com/misc/comparison.txt
(Warning: I don't know Java, so feel free to point out any errors I've made.)
<arjanb>String buildString(List<String> myList) = myList.join(";");19:58
'String myList[]' in java is odd, the prefered way is 'String[] myList'20:01
and it is 'myList.length' instead of 'myList.Length()'20:03
<Defiler>Aah. Thanks.20:04
Does Nice support functions like that outside of classes? It does, right?
<arjanb>yes
<Defiler>So, does this look more correct? http://supremetyrant.com/misc/comparison.txt20:06
<arjanb>length is with l and not L20:11
<Defiler>OK, fixed that.. and split the Nice example into a function definition, to make it a little more fair.20:14
Obviously this isn't the most serious comparison ever, but the paper is for upper management, so it doesn't have to be ultra-technical. I'm not trying to convince a bunch of Common Lisp gurus to switch to Nice or anything. ;)20:15
<arjanb>i don't know what your goal is with this comparison but imho comparing a few snippets doesn't tell much about the languages
<Defiler>Nope. I'm just trying to, basically, convince some non-programmers that not every language is equally concise.20:16
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