Log of the #nice channel on irc.freenode.net

Using timezone: Central European Time
<arjanb>good night01:59
* arjanb leaves
* bonniot leaves02:39
* arjanb joins12:34
* bonniot joins13:39
hi13:45
<arjanb>hi13:46
<bonniot>what do you think of the code formating in http://nice.sourceforge.net/safety.html ?13:48
<arjanb>blue letters on blue background?13:49
<bonniot>hard to read for you?13:50
<arjanb>not hard but it isn't pretty13:51
<bonniot>looks good to me... :-)
you can edit the css file and propose an alternative...13:52
are you using IE?13:58
<arjanb>also13:59
and IE 5.0 doesn't place java/nice correctly14:01
<bonniot>where is it placed?14:02
<arjanb>half over edge of the block with 3 times larger font
<bonniot>the bigger font is normal14:03
but i think i found a better way for the position
can you reload?14:07
<arjanb>position better in IE but worse in firebird(outdated version 0.5)14:10
<bonniot>i can try firebird...14:11
<arjanb>i should update firebird
<bonniot>yes14:13
i have 0.7 here
they are OK, but just on the border, so not perfect
<arjanb>but in ie 5.0 is java\nice font 2 times larger and very blocky14:18
<bonniot>blocky?14:20
<arjanb>i can count the pixels
<bonniot>font problem14:25
<arjanb>what about using a light gray background for code?14:35
<bonniot>can you write the css?14:45
<arjanb>can try
what's the name of that file?
<bonniot>in the new version you can choose the style14:46
in Mozilla it's: View -> Use Style14:47
don't see it in firebird
does IE support that?
<arjanb>no14:49
<bonniot>:-(14:50
MS is not very good in implementing standards...
oh yes, it's in firebird14:51
bottom left corner
<arjanb>i see
<bonniot>it should not offer No theme14:52
but Basic just has the positions, not the colors
sorry, forgot to send the css file names:15:13
<arjanb>np have found them15:14
<bonniot>it's hl_base.css and hl_blue.css
ok
to change the colors you should only need to change hl_blue.css
<arjanb>why is class not a keyword?
<bonniot>that must be in highlight15:16
yes, and it's missing in Java too...15:18
<Bluelive>ping ping, blue as a highlight might not be the best choice :)15:20
<bonniot>you don't like it either?15:21
if you have a decent browser, you can choose the Basic theme...
<Bluelive>i have no problem with the color, my irc client highlights if somebody says blue15:23
<arjanb>:-)15:24
<bonniot>why?15:25
<Bluelive>i often get nicknamed blue on irc, so its handy to have some indication that i should inspect the conversation15:27
<bonniot>ic15:28
for me you're bl :-)
<Bluelive>maybe i should add a highlight on that too then ;)15:29
<arjanb>the comments are ugly now
<bonniot>ugly in what version?15:30
<arjanb>online version15:31
i suggest make them normal text and switch color with strings
<bonniot>the comments did not change, did they?15:32
<arjanb>no
<bonniot>so why do you say they are ugly now?15:34
<arjanb>-now15:35
they are too striking15:36
<bonniot>you should make up your own css style, then I can see better what you mean15:39
<arjanb>how easy is it to change the highlighter categories?15:45
<bonniot>what kind of change?15:48
<arjanb>put null,true,false in constants15:50
make operators a category15:51
<bonniot>constants seem only built-in at the moment (numbers)15:58
so I suppose you would need to modify the source
it should not be hard, though
you would want to highlight operators?15:59
<arjanb>i do that usually in my editor16:02
<bonniot>what editor?16:03
<arjanb>ultradit
+e
<bonniot>yeah, it should be possible16:06
<arjanb>hmm the highlighter seems to be quite hardcoded16:15
<bonniot>adding a category should be easy, no?16:17
there is already keywords and types, which much be recognized in the same way, but are two different categories16:18
so adding a 3rd one should be simple
actually it should be generic:16:19
group(keywords) = class interface ...16:20
group(constants) = null true false
so each language could have its own categories
<arjanb>but it isn't generic at the moment16:23
<bonniot>yes
cvs server is down again?17:16
<arjanb>yes :-(
<bonniot>On Thursday, January 22, 2004 developer CVS services will be down for approximately 7.5 hours for some additional upgrades starting at 00:01.17:18
<arjanb>hmm cvs still down19:44
i have been thinking about type inference by assignment and the problem with the do while loop20:24
there is no way to do typechecking correctly in a single pass20:25
<Bluelive>isnt that truw for any looping condition ?20:30
its the MIN of the initiali condition and the end condition
not forgetting about ccontinue and such20:31
<arjanb>right20:32
<Bluelive>two passes should be enough ?20:33
<arjanb>at least not with nested loops20:34
two passes may be enough with a single loop because of overloading20:36
may _not_ be20:38
cvs works again though very slowly20:47
<Bluelive>if not two passes, then how many ?21:55
maybe just collapse back to the type used when created21:56
<arjanb>so many passes that the infered type doesn't change anymore21:57
that's not always possible because nice doesn't require a type in variable declarations
<Bluelive>that could be a large number of iterations21:58
i think 2 passes should be enough21:59
first pass to find out the types of everything at the point the flow moves to the start
then apply the minimum to all the code22:00
<arjanb>not possible if you take assignments in account
<Bluelive>i dont understand :)22:01
<arjanb>let's see if i can find an example22:02
class A {}22:10
class B {} extends A
class C {} extends B
A foo(A x);
A foo(B x);
B foo(C x);
void bar()
{
var y = new A();
...
y = new C();
for(int i = 0;--i<10;) {
y = foo(y);
}
}
<Bluelive>ah, the dispatch scheme gets in the way22:11
<arjanb>no overloading is the problem22:12
<Bluelive>how do you plan to make sure that there are circular checks ?
<arjanb>isn't possible22:13
<Bluelive>its rapidly changing from staticly typed compiler into a prover for something more dynamic from my point of view :)22:14
<arjanb>indeed
but it's still staticly typed (staticly checked is the better name)22:15
<Bluelive>multiple dispatch is probably not very static in nature ?22:16
<arjanb>that is a misunderstanding that more people seem to have22:17
<bonniot>nice article by Bryn about logging23:59
and the special syntax for ()=> calls comes in very handy
<arjanb>Bryn is good at finding good use for all kinds of features00:00
<bonniot>:-) makes me think again we need a way for people to publish packages (the logging library)00:02
<arjanb>scala can do user defined syntax things quit neatly: http://scala.epfl.ch/intro/targettyping.html#stats00:04
have you found a place to put nice libraries?00:05
<bonniot>no, nothing new for hosting00:09
<arjanb>they have messed up the cvs server it seems i have never seen cvs this slow00:11
<bonniot>suppose the upgrade is not over00:12
in the Scala example, what makes the condition evaluated each time and not once?00:13
oh, its def00:14
did not read the begining
not a very intuitive name for that I think
<arjanb>the scale syntax has not my preference00:15
<bonniot>what don't you like?00:16
<arjanb>var: Type instead of Type var00:17
<bonniot>that's a question of habbit I think00:22
<arjanb>could be00:25
is a habbit, how could i forget years of pascal so fast00:27
do you think it's a problem to change typechecking so that multiple passes over the same code are possible?00:31
<bonniot>a priori no pb00:32
how do you call your style?00:34
<arjanb>don't have a name00:35
it's just an idea in which direction i would take the style00:36
<bonniot>ok, i'll call it arjan then :-)00:37
<arjanb>i have subscribed to the scala mailinglist, i think it's interesting to see how it will evolve00:46
<bonniot>sure00:49
<arjanb>have seen Isaac there but that was to be expected :-)00:51
<bonniot>he's multiglot ;-)00:53
<arjanb>polyglot it is
<bonniot>sent a new version, with better formatting and your gray style as an alternative01:23
<arjanb>the alternative looks the same as basic01:37
<bonniot>Grey?
<arjanb>yes01:38
<bonniot>right
You don't have permission to access /hl_gray.css on this server.01:40
??
fixed01:41
it must have been the DCC transfer that created the file with owner-only read permissions...
did you look at the static method error message?01:54
it should be improvable...